Public Mediation

Better Business Bureau BBB-Dispute-#2851314

P. C. vs. Bbb Better Business Bureau Of Des Moines, Iowa
505 5th Ave Suite 950, Des Moines, Iowa, 50309, United States
    • Status: In Negotiation
      This claim has posted for public comment and negotiation. It will remain posted until resolved to the claimant's satisfaction. Suggest a resolution to help these parties reach a settlement.
      (seeking public comment)
    • Claimant Seeks: 10 non-monetary items.
    • Claim #: 2851314
    • Amount Involved: N/A
    • Filed On: Apr 04, 2012
    • Posted On: Apr 15, 2012
    • Complaint(s):
      • Bad business or marketing practices
      • Refusal to respond or remove bad content
      • Negligence or failure to exercise due care
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Statement of Claim
Claimant says:
"This is a claim made by the JACI Group Inc. and its affiliate website, www.PeopleClaim.com, an online dispute resolution provider and BBB competitor. The claim is against the BBB for posting false or misleading statements about JACI on the BBB’s website, and for using its controversial business ratings and advertising review processes negligently and in bad faith to unjustly disparage PeopleClaim.

Specifically, our complaint against the BBB includes the following:

1. False accusations and statements reported in the BBB’s profile about JACI and PeopleClaim
2. Continued failure by the BBB to respond to repeated requests for clarification about our BBB rating and their “Advertising and Review” process
3. Over-reaching and unsupported demands for sensitive information, trade secrets and confidential customer information
4. Failure to contact or use due care in attempting to contact JACI prior to lowering its BBB Rating- and, falsely claiming “they received no response from JACI” as justification for the rating downgrade (we have documented all attempts at correspondence with the BBB in this claim)
5. Failure to act in good faith and abide by the BBB’s own standards as outlined in its website.
6. Failure to apply its business grading criteria and standards evenly with respect other businesses, and in particular its own paying members
7. Failure to disclose the limitations of its BBB rating system or the possibility of errors, conflicts of interest and misinformation in its published business ratings
8. Fabrication of a bogus business profile for PeopleClaim that falsely associated PeopleClaim with an unrelated business in order, we believe, to justify a lower BBB rating.
9. Failure to issue ratings that truthfully reflect customer satisfaction and response to customer complaints.


PeopleClaim and the BBB

The BBB considers PeopleClaim.com to be a competitor and has denied PeopleClaim BBB accreditation on that basis. PeopleClaim offers free and paid online dispute resolution services, and publishes unedited, primary information about unresolved complaints against businesses, professionals and others as a free resource for consumers and regulatory agencies. PeopleClaim also offers a service that allows businesses to challenge and rebut any BBB, Yelp or other business review or rating site content.

PeopleClaim.com shares the BBB’s goal of helping consumers and others resolve disputes with businesses and other organizations in a constructive and fair manner. PeopleClaim differs from the BBB in several important ways. We do not evaluate, rank or in any way attempt to judge businesses. Instead we give business an opportunity to resolve claims and provide free public access to actual unresolved claim information, which is posted by complaining parties on the PeopleClaim website. Another important difference is that we do not rely upon or accept any payments from the businesses that become, or could become, targets of claims filed on our site by PeopleClaim users. We believe such practices pose substantial conflicts of interest and can result in inaccurate or misleading data.

We started PeopleClaim to offer an alternative or complementary dispute resolution channel to the BBB, small claims court and mediation services. Approximately 10% of PeopleClaim claimants report having first tried to resolve their disputes through the BBB. before coming to PeopleClaim for assistance.

Our issues with the BBB

On three separate occasions the BBB has published and used false or misleading information about PeopleClaim to justify downgrading JACI and/or PeopleClaim’s BBB business ratings. After complaining to the BBB, some of the misleading information and the negative scores were removed. However, the BBB has recently again lowered our score for reasons that it refuses to justify or substantiate, and which are unrelated to any customer complaints or user dissatisfaction with PeopleClaim or its services. We believe that we have been targeted for downgrade and repeated harassment by the BBB because we provide a competing service and possibly because of our refusal to renew our paid membership with the local BBB in 2010.

Background and BBB’s history of problems:

PeopleClaim’s parent, The JACI Group was a member of the BBB in good standing until we chose to let our membership lapse in 2010. Our decision was based in part on negative reports about the BBB from PeopleClaim users, and in part on published reports of abuses in the BBB’s business ratings process that came to light through investigative reports by ABC’s 20/20, the New York Times, and the Los Angeles Times, and in a government action by Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal (see attached BBB complaint letter from AG Blumenthal):

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/your-money/13haggler.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1329480336-mtPEhPVHTkjOwDVT3IokGg

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/business-bureau-best-ratings-money-buy/story?id=12123843


These reports document aggressive marketing practice, inconsistent or inadequately supported rating standards and serious conflicts of interest. The reports also suggest that the BBB at times has rewarded bad businesses with good ratings if they paid membership fees, and punished good businesses with bad ratings if they refused to participate in BBB programs. The BBB has admitted to “mistakes” in their system and agreed to change aspects of its business model and policy. However, after learning of these practices we determined that our BBB membership was of no value to us or our customers.

Shortly after discontinuing JACI’s membership, the BBB lowered our business rating to F, its lowest possible rating. We were puzzled by this action as our customer satisfaction history, which is fully confirmed by the BBB’s own records, is far better than many BBB member businesses that enjoy A+ ratings. Specifically, in three years of operation, we have helped disgruntled consumers with thousands of complaints but only four complaints about our services have been made through the BBB. All four BBB complaints against PeopleClaim were either dismissed because the complaining party agreed with our explanation or because they simply failed to respond after hearing it. We assume, and are happy that, all complaining parties were fully satisfied once we explained our position and policy.

Current downgrade and the BBB’s failure to respond to PeopleClaim

In its latest action against JACI and PeopleClaim, the BBB has used its arbitrary “advertising review process,” along with the threat of a ratings downgrade, to try to coerce PeopleClaim to reveal confidential trade secrets, grant unrestricted access to PeopleClaim’s clients, and alter information posted about the BBB on the PeopleClaim website. Given the BBB’s history of mismanagement of conflicts of interest we are justifiably reluctant to provide such information or access without clarification as to its purpose and assurances from the BBB that our information would not be misused for competitive purposes. After requesting clarification on the BBB’s demands, our rating was initially put “in suspension” by the BBB, but subsequently reposted as an “F” without explanation or further response. The BBB has since refused to communicate with JACI, and has ignored our 5 most recent requests for information about their actions.

On its business profile for JACI/PeopleClaim, the BBB lists vague references to “inaccurate information” on the PeopleClaim site as justification for a ratings downgrade. It seems the BBB’s main issue relates to a comparison chart which was posted on the PeopleClaim website listing competitive differences between PeopleClaim and the BBB’s own dispute resolution processes. The BBB initially claimed that information in the chart was inaccurate and demanded its removal, but failed to provide any substantiation for their claims, and refused to state specifically how the information was inaccurate.

The BBB also claims that we didn’t respond to some of their requests. This is completely false. We have responded promptly to every communication that we have received from the BBB, however we note that the BBB has refused to update our mailing address information and has in the past sent requests to an undeliverable mailing address. We are aware of other business that have been harmed by BBB ratings actions that were prompted by delivery of notice mistakes on the part of the BBB. As we pointed out to the BBB, all information contained in the PeopleClaim comparison chart was obtained from public sources and, where possible, was confirmed through the BBB’s own websites.
The BBB has ignored our offer for them to help edit the information in the comparison chart so that we could accurately represent their policies and practices. In the absence of any response from the BBB, we recently updated the comparison chart and provided an advanced copy to the BBB for comment and revision. Once again however, the BBB refused to comment or respond. (We have attached all correspondence with the BBB on this matter to this claim)

This refusal to respond is particularly puzzling as the BBB claims to place considerable weight on a business’s response to BBB complaints, and it frequently dismisses consumer claims against businesses if the complaining party fails to respond in a timely manner. It seems, however, that the BBB exempts itself from the need to communicate when pursuing complaints in its own competitive self-interest. Using the BBB’s own standards, their complaint against us would have been dismissed (and our rating preserved) for failure to respond, had the complaining party been anyone other than the BBB.

Conflicts of interest and violation of the BBB’s claim of “neutrality”

Several references on BBB websites claim that the BBB acts only as a neutral party:
For example:

“Your BBB acts as a neutral third party in matters of dispute. As such, BBB's aim is not to "tar and feather" companies on the basis of one unsatisfied customer, but rather, to promote communication between the parties and offer the chance to resolve the problem. The emphasis is not so much on what happened to bring about the complaint in the first place, but more so on whether the company acts in good faith to try to resolve it”

In the case of the BBB’s action against PeopleClaim, the BBB cannot claim to be acting in a neutral capacity. Their claim is on behalf of the BBB’s own interests, and they are acting as both a complainant and judge/rater. It’s also clear that they aren’t promoting or even participating in communication to resolve their dispute with us—a key standard that they claim to require in their own accreditation process for member businesses.

As our attached correspondence shows, JACI has acted in good faith to try to resolve the BBB’s issues, but the BBB has stonewalled our attempts at resolution- possibly in order to maintain its F profile rating against us for competitive purposes.

It’s also our understanding that the BBB refuses to consider complaints against itself as part of its business ratings system, and the BBB is not, in fact, a member of the BBB. Presumably this is because there are obvious conflicts of interest for the BBB to rate itself or act as a “neutral party” in complaints with its own staff or BBB affiliates. Clearly, similar conflicts of interest exist between the BBB and BBB competitors like PeopleClaim. Consequently, the BBB should refrain from rating or attempting to evaluate any competing business - especially where the BBB is acting as the complaining party as is the case with PeopleClaim.

We have no reservations about responding constructively to any PeopleClaim customer complaints filed through the BBB, but the BBB has no business engaging in the type of arbitrary advertising review process that it has disingenuously used to justify an F rating in our case.

Failure to apply ratings criteria consistently or accurately

Finally, while the BBB has targeted PeopleClaim for its critical content about the BBB, a quick search of the web reveals false, but favorable content about the BBB on web pages of BBB accredited member sites that enjoy the highest possible BBB ratings.
For example, the following statement appears prominently on A+ rated, BBB accredited member Business.com’s website:

“Are you looking to get assistance or advice from the Better Business Bureau? The BBB is a government agency that helps protect businesses and consumers alike”

This is a completely false statement. The BBB is not a government agency and has no regulatory powers. This is a common misconception by the public which the BBB seems to do little to correct

It’s unclear if this reference is a BBB sponsored advertisement on Business.com, which in our opinion would be even worse. Regardless, the BBB rewards Business.com with its highest rating: A+. A related BBB profile references DexOne aka Business.com, also an accredited member with an A+ rating in spite of 481 BBB complaints, 125 of which are for advertising and sales related issues. Dexone was formally R.H. Donnelley Inc., which went bankrupt in 2009. It’s unclear whether Dexone still owns Business.com, as suggested by the BBB profile, because yet another A rated company- Resource Nation, also appears to be associated with the Business.com name. In any event, all the related companies are highly rated, accredited members of the BBB in spite of the false representation that the BBB is a governmental agency.

Note: We’ve attached a screen shot from the Business.com BBB page since we suspect the reference will be removed upon the BBB’s receipt of this claim. Here’s the link just in case: http://www.business.com/general/better-business-bureau)

Additionally, other sites, including taxpayer supported USA.gov list the BBB in conjunction with government agencies, reinforcing the false idea that the BBB is a government or quasi-governmental agency. If the BBB was serious about truth in advertising, they would be more vigilant and take necessary action to insure that their status is clearly and truthfully represented on their own members’ websites and in directories that reference governmental organizations.

The disparity between Business.com’s BBB A+ rating and our F rating is also startling, especially given the fact that accredited members of the BBB are supposedly required to abide by the “BBB’s “Code of Business Practices and accreditation Standards” , which include the requirement for accredited members to” tell the truth and honestly represent products and services” and to “Ensure that any written materials are readily available, clear, accurate and complete” According to the BBB’s profile for Business.com: “BBB has determined that this business meets BBB accreditation standards”

We are willing to consider that BBB is simply unaware of Business.com’s false statement about the BBB’s ‘government agency” status, but what does that say about the reliability of the BBB’s business rating system? At a minimum, it supports A.G. Blumenthal’s statement and shows that little has changed since the BBB admitted to the mistakes in their system.

A.G. Blumenthal:

“I remain concerned that the term “rating” inaccurately describes the BBB grading system. There are clear, practical and logistical limits to the BBB’s ability to accurately and fairly implement a full ratings system for businesses. Extensive resources are necessary to verify the self-reported information that the BBB receives from businesses. This information includes compliance with state and federal licensing and registration requirements, outstanding lawsuits, time in business and financial stability. My understanding is that the BBB does not have the resources to verify all self-reported business information. The BBB must disclose in a clear and prominent manner this and any other factual limitations on its rating system. Failure to do so may be misleading to consumers and adversely impact those good businesses who are not rated by the BBB — a result that is bad for both”.

If the BBB’s rating system cannot provide a reliable, fair and consistent standard for evaluating businesses, what good is it and why does it pretend that potentially misleading information is helpful to consumers? If the BBB is incapable of evaluating all businesses thoroughly, reliably, and fairly it shouldn’t be in the business of business evaluation. Nor should it publish ratings that cannot be relied upon by the public. At a minimum the BBB should fully disclose the serious limitations and short-comings of its rating system on each business profile and exempt businesses where the BBB is acting with bias, conflicts of interest or in its own self-interest.

Conclusion:

We believe the BBB does some good work and at times can help with consumer disputes against businesses, but quality, management and ethics seem to vary widely from branch to branch and its ratings system offers little guidance to consumers seeking to know which businesses to do business with and which to avoid. PeopleClaim, and other businesses that are targeted by BBB actions should be judged solely by the quality of their service and the satisfaction of their customers- not by the BBB’s subjective and seemingly arbitrary letter grading criteria or by the BBB’s self-interest.

We have attempted to resolve this matter directly with the BBB. However, as documented in this claim, they have refused to respond to our many requests for clarification on factors it claims influenced a downgrading of our BBB rating. We invite comment from other businesses or consumers who have been similarly victimized by the BBB."
Reply Have a similar problem?
What Claimant Wants Hide
Non-Cash
What By When How Much
1. Replace: Immediately remove the negative ratings for JACI and PeopleClaim and replace them with a “Not Rated” designation. Add a foot note explaining that the BBB does not provide ratings for competing organizations Apr 18, 2012 N/A
2. Upgrade: Add space for businesses to reply to or rebut BBB actions on any businesses BBB profile Apr 18, 2012 N/A
3. Apology: We want the BBB to apologise to any businesses that have been harmed by similar bad practices Apr 18, 2012 N/A
4. Change of policy: Remove any items that do not involve actual consumer or regulatory agency complaints in the BBB’s criteria for rating businesses and specifically on JACI’s BBB profile Apr 18, 2012 N/A
5. Information: Provide full details and disclosure regarding the reasons and motivations that prompted the BBB’s “Advertising Review” of the PeopleClaim website. Include any instructions that were given by anyone within the BBB to investigate, harass or otherwise engage PeopleClaim in any BBB review. Apr 18, 2012 N/A
6. Information: Fully substantiate your reasons for objecting to our comparison chart between the BBB and PeopleClaim’s dispute resolution processes, and provide requested comment on the contents of the new chart which was previously forwarded to you Apr 18, 2012 N/A
7. Information: Respond to all JACI correspondence that was previously ignored by the BBB and fully answer our questions about 1) reasons for our downgraded rating, and 2) your requests for information or PeopleClaim customer access. Apr 18, 2012 N/A
8. Take necessary action to remove BBB listings from directories or business listings websites where the BBB’s listing could reasonably be mistaken for a government agency and request that disclosure be made on any listings or references in government websites that makes clear that the BBB is not a government agency Apr 18, 2012 N/A
9. Demand immediate removal of false statements claiming or implying that the BBB is a government agency for all BBB member websites and with any marketing partners or government directories, including www.business.com and www.USA.Gov. Apr 18, 2012 N/A
10. Practice what you preach- apply your own standards to BBB actions and policy Apr 18, 2012 N/A
Cash
1. Other – Physical delivery charges Apr 18, 2012 $2.99
2. Other – Copy claim to regulators Apr 18, 2012 $14.95
3. Other – Pay for claim posting cost Apr 18, 2012 $7.95
Cash total : $25.89
Non-cash: 10 items
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Respondent's Counteroffer


There has been no response to this claim from BBB Better Business Bureau of Des Moines, Iowa. This claim will remain posted until resolved
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  • Comment: by Paul Anastasiu — Online mediator
  • On: 04-24-2012
  • the whole concept of the bbb is way over-passed. to an outsider like me, BBB = paid accreditation, and I'm not going to put up with that. Are you?
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